From the hearth: Excerpts of a congenial conversation during Masters week with Kaye Kessler, winner of the 2001 PGA Lifetime Achievement in Journalism Award; Kaye's been writing about Jack Nicklaus for 50 years. Naturally, Arnold Palmer's name came up. It's an appealing contrast - even now - the personalities of the two friends and rivals who continue to demonstrate the elemental cherished values of the game.

The Hearthstone Review: Kaye, any of us who play golf don't need to be reminded of how humbling it is, but Arnold demonstrated it this week. It must be bittersweet for him.

Kaye Kessler: It totally is. They're talking about it being a sad one, Jim, and all of that, but here's a man who's been here 48 times. And they say it's his last time at Augusta but that's not quite true. Arnold and Jack are both members of Augusta National, so you think they won't be back? You better believe they will. They are the only two members who have played the tour.

THR: I was surprised when they asked Arnold if he would hit the first ball - I guess the day will come when we will see Arnold and Jack and Gary Player hitting that ceremonial first shot - he didn't want to think about that.

Kaye Kessler: I don't think that will happen in my time. It might in yours, Jim. Arnold might do it. I don't think Jack ever will - now maybe I'll have to eat those words - but no, I don't think Jack's going to be a ceremonial golfer. I'm not sure Arnold is. He just adores the adulation. I was out walking the last 13 holes and it was quite an experience. This wasn't tearful for Arnold. It was cheerful. He bantered with the crowd. On 11, he hit his ball into the right rough and he goes into the gallery and he looks around at everybody, and he goes: "Whatdya' say we go have a beer?"

THR: I know there's no cheering in the press box but I gather everyone got up on their hind legs when he left the media center on Thursday after making the announcement.

Kessler: They did it when he came in. Yesterday, at every hole, the crowd, as he approached the green, they all stood and gave him a thunderous cheer. He got what we would normally accept to be eagle or birdie roars and cheers twice when he made bogey putts. I mean, this is the way this guy is adored. It's just awesome.

THR: He doesn't want to get a letter [if you'll recall, from the club suggesting it's time to pack it in] and I would imagine Jack doesn't want to get a letter either.

Kessler: Well, they're not going to worry about Jack getting a letter because this time, Jack could've gone out and played and put up a 76 or 77, but that's not Jack. So, if he couldn't be better than 50 percent, which is what he said, he's not coming. But what did he do? He went skiing.

THR: Did he really?

Kessler: He went skiing last weekend and someone said, "You're crazy. You've got a bad back and you went skiing?" "Yea," he said, "skiing and tennis don't hurt me, but I skied two days at Beaver Creek in Colorado on Friday and Saturday." And I said, "You didn't ski Sunday?" And he said, "Naw, it was slushy." So I said, "You missed the cut."

THR: Actually, I'm glad this all took place as it did, because Jack and Arnold, particularly at Augusta are so closely linked. Let me take you back if I can to something you wrote about Jack and Arnold nearly 40 years ago.

You wrote: "Jack Nicklaus doesn't hitch up his trousers and charge dramatically down the fairway like Arnold Palmer. He doesn't exude schoolboy charm like the late Tony Lema. He doesn't dress with the flamboyance of Jimmy Demaret or the distinctiveness of Gary Player. Rather, Jack Nicklaus often wears a smile so thin the fans often mistake it for a leer of overconfidence."

What was the problem? Jack was a hard sell to the public initially.

Kessler: Well, I don't think it was a problem. This was Jack. He was focused much as Tiger was when Tiger was 19 and 20. Jack was the man in the black suit, so to speak. He was not colorful. He wore white shirts and black shoes and black trousers. He walked down the fairway and he didn't see anybody in the gallery except his wife Barbara. And that's the way he was focused.

Arnold had this grin on his face all the time, and a wave and smile to the crowd. That's not Jack's style. Just like here, last Tuesday and Wednesday, Jack loved to come into the pressroom on Tuesday when he came up here for the [champion's] dinner. He spent two hours and fifteen minutes with the media in the pressroom and then outside. That's his stage. Arnold's stage is on the golf course, whether he's shooting 65 or 85. And he loves the adulation and the roar of the crowd. Jack can take that or leave it.

THR: I remember one year waiting for a drink at the [Golf Writers' Association] dinner in Augusta, turning around and there was Jack in line at the bar. Everyone was flabbergasted that he actually came.

Kessler: That's true but that's Jack. He would come to the writers' things, and love it. He likes to talk to the people. Arnold doesn't mind it but he'd rather talk to the fans and hear the applause. They're just different personalities. Yet, they both speak very fondly of each other and while they're great rivals on the course, they're great friends off of it.

THR: Did you hear the galleries call Jack 'Blobbo' and 'Ohio Fats'? He took that. He didn't really respond.

Kessler: I heard all of it. You know, 'here comes old blobbo' and 'Ohio fats' and 'go get 'em lard bucket.' And this kind of stuff. Jack said he never heard it. 'It never bothered me.' He says: "I didn't see it. I wasn't aware of it. I heard the crowd…" You know, even here at Augusta when Jack would hit a ball in the water - I'm talking about '63, '64 - and when a bogey went up on the board for Jack the crowd would cheer. Which was weird. It used to bother the daylights out of Charlie Nicklaus, Jack's dad. I mean, he'd get red necked and want to go fight somebody. Jack said never once said it bothered him. I don't think it bothered Barbara either.

THR: And he never begrudged Arnold for the reaction?

Kessler: Not in the slightest. But I think this is what provoked it all. Jack was the bad guy. He was the guy who beat Arnold in his own back yard. And the fans were never very forgiving about this. Neither was the Eastern press for that matter.

THR: Well, we know that Bob Jones was so disturbed by the patrons' behavior that they added that beautifully written three paragraphs about crowd behavior to the pairing sheet.

Kessler: And it's been on the tickets on more than one occasion.

THR: You finished that article years ago: "People are finally starting to realize that Jack Nicklaus is one of golf's good guys and not the villain in an Arnold Palmer soap opera."

Kessler: Did I write that? That's wonderful. (Laughs) Well, I'll tell you, they're both good guys. And they are what has made golf what it is today. You can say anything you want to, and I love Hogan and Demaret, Mangrum and those guys, but obviously these guys came along with the advent of TV - this is when they got even more exposure. Sure it's one thing to be at Baltusrol or Merion or Augusta, Georgia and have all the crowds, but if they can't be seen on the television nationwide or worldwide, for that matter, there's your difference.

These two guys…every player on tour today and coming up should salute those two bozos, I tell ya.

THR: Gene Sarazen said the same thing years ago about Walter Hagen's impact. And I was interested to learn that Arnold was a pallbearer for Hagen. I think he took his cue from the Haig, in the same way that Jack, because of his dad's idolizing Bob Jones, took his cue from Jones.

Kessler: Absolutely. And Jack had the good fortune to meet Jones on a couple of occasions, once at Williamsburg, Virginia, and once at Ohio State when he was still a burr-headed teenager. And that's when Jones said "this boy plays a game with which I am totally unfamiliar." And he became a great, great fan of Jones which, as you point out, was because his dad Charlie pointed out to him how great a man Jones was, and he got to witness it first hand. A lot of people didn't have that pleasure. Now it's too bad that a lot of people didn't have the real pleasure of seeing Arnold or Jack in their primes.

THR: It may be a backhanded compliment, especially in competitive sports to call someone a good loser, but I know people who greatly admire Jack, do so in part because of the way he handled losing over the years.

Kessler: You've got it perfectly. He's the best loser in sports, not just golf. That's a horrible thing to say in one respect but it's a great thing to say in another. He has had 42 second-place finishes. He's had 19 second-place finishes in the majors. And he does it with a smile and a handshake.

It goes back to his junior days and to his father, Charlie, who once told Jack, who never had much of a temper but he'd get upset: "Jackie [they called him Jackie boy then] when you lose, I want you to go over to whoever beats you and shake his hand and smile." And Jack has a wonderful talent to do that.

© THR, 2002

Talking Points - Edition I - Ron Green
Talking Points - Edition II - Dr. Patrick Cohn
Talking Points - Edition III - Bradley S. Klein
Talking Points - Edition IV - Doug Sanders
Talking Points - Edition V - Curt Sampson
Talking Points - Edition VI - Geoff Shackelford
Talking Points - Edition VII - Bryan Gathright
Talking Points - Edition VIII - Tim Rosaforte, Ray March and Gary Player
Talking Points - Edition IX - Dave Pelz
Talking Points - Edition X - Don Wade
Talking Points - Edition XI - Sidney Matthew
Talking Points - Edition XII - Bud Shrake
Talking Points - Edition XIII - Betsy Rawls
Talking Points - Edition XIV - Roy McCoy, Cliff Rampy and Susan Naylor
Talking Points - Edition XV - Cindy Figg-Currier & Dan O'Neill
Talking Points - Edition XVI - Golf Digest's Pete McDaniel
Talking Points - Edition XVII - Darren Kilfara & Lorne Rubenstein